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Given that any center speaker I find will probably not resemble my mains, which resemble these https://josephcrowe.com/products/3d-cad-files-horn-no-1994-es450-biradial-for-jbl-2446-2-throat Thus, I can't imagine see mono and stereo music recordings would sound so great on such a 3.x channel system. OTOH, I hoping that at least if the center is nearly as efficient as the mains that they will serve well enough as a 3.x system for DVD & BD movie playback, given that nearly all of the dialogue is intended for the center, and the Fx shared with the subs.

Troy Crowe is doing a custom build for me which will resemble these. https://josephcrowe.com/products/speaker-system-no-2015-10-mtm-with-1-4-horn The question is that with the 3.1 system I want to build for DVD and BD movies, would I likely notice the main speakers playing much when watching movies, if indeed like ELAC, SVS and Definitive Technology say that ~ 70% of the movie soundtrack is intended for the center speaker? If yes, then with just music listening, since I don’t play any multichannel music, the center channel speaker won't even be playing with stereo and mono recordings. So, will timbre matching between center and main speakers still be very important when watching movies? If yes, the trouble is that Troy Crowe gives no recommendations for a center speaker. Therefore, how to find a center speaker that will blend best with that ES450 horn and Fostex T900A bullet tweeter?

Got it.

Says SVS: https://www.svsound.com/blogs/svs/why-the-center-channel-is-the-most-important-home-theater-speaker The center channel carries roughly 70 percent of the entire soundtrack, and even more in specific moments. This includes the vast majority of dialog and musical vocals. Says Definitive Technology: https://www.definitivetechnology.com/en-us/product/center-channel/dymension-dm10/300564.html Hello, and thank you for your purchase and positive feedback. Yes, the center channel is often called upon up to 70% of the time during playback, making the center speaker the most important speaker in your system. Thank you for choosing us. Happy listening. Says ELAC: https://www.elac.com/do-you-need-a-centre-channel-speaker The center channel speaker is arguably the most important and underrated in a home theatre surround sound system. Nearly 70% of all audio content plays through the center channel at any given moment. It also handles the majority of dialogue and vocals in music and movies. It ties all the action together across the front stage to create continuity and a sense of realism. A better question is, what are you using your audio system for? If you are using your system to watch movies as a part of a home theatre system, you will be glad you have it. So, apparently only ~ 30% of the audio would remain for the front speakers and subs in a 3.1 system. I guess my question is that since you and many here have > 5.1 systems, when you play a BD movie or stream one, do you still notice that much of the audio is heard through the center speaker?

I want to build a 3.1 system for DVD and BD movie playback. My mains will resemble these https://josephcrowe.com/products/3d-cad-files-horn-no-1994-es450-biradial-for-jbl-2446-2-throat And there's my three Rythmik F12 subs. Will play DVD and BD movies on my pc's BD drive and use JRiver player settings to downmix the Dolby Digital or DTS-MA multichannel audio to 3.1. My concern is that numerous center channel speaker brands say that "up to 70%" of movie audio is mixed to be reproduced by a center speaker. But if that's true then how much of what audio is typically fed to the main speakers? And how would this change when I downmix to 3.1?

Lots of room/speaker/sub correcting info. Will definitely spend time there.

Thanks; at least I've finally narrowed my DAC choice down to between that card in the Hapi chassis and the Dangerous Music Convert-8.

Curious about your fronts. Are they large open baffles-or perhaps more likely large three way or two way horns? That might explain why your phantom is large, especially for movie dialogue, and also on axis with your ears.

Prior to any room correction, I wonder which would tend to sound better: Merging Hapi or Anthem AVM90 or LYNGDORF MP-40 2.1

Please help me find my way out of this conundrum: I want to drive a ~ 90db SPL/w/m center channel speaker either of four ways: 1.) A ~ 10 watt mono tube amp. Budget ~ $2.7K From the DAC output feeding a LOW power tube amp. Driving the center speaker even with any of these lesser 300B SET mono blocks? https://www.google.com/search?q=300b+mono+set+amplifier+between+$1,000+and+$3,500&udm=28&shoprs=CAESFhIUCQAAAABlzc1BEQAAAGC4E-pBGAEYBSoXMzAwYiBtb25vIHNldCBhbXBsaWZpZXIyMQgFEg8kMSwwMDAgLSAkMyw1MDAYAiIWEhQJAAAAAGXNzUERAAAAYLgT6kEYASoCGAFYprMgYAI&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj569e1l7mHAxVpEVkFHSYsCDkQ268JKAJ6BAgQEB8&biw=1066&bih=438&dpr=1.2 2.) The other idea was a 45 tube amp, which I’ve heard can rival the sound of 300B SETs, but I can’t find any around. Any suggested 45 mono amp under $2.5K? But do they run much hotter and/or have higher power draw than a cheap 300B mono block? 3.) My stock First Watt F4 amp in balanced mono mode. https://www.firstwatt.com/product/f4/ https://www.firstwatt.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/prod_f4_man.pdf As the F4 as a mono block does 100 watts, my room's only ~ 2800 cu ft and I'd be only 13 ft away how much input signal voltage could the F4 really need, even to sound it's best under these conditions? That's why I wanted to know if someone has ever put a balanced passive line stage between the F4 and a balanced output source-like a multichannel DAC, which will have a ~ 4.6V output. https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5e15d4fba20f9d0f914ce7aa/t/5ecbdb96fd31365e4fd5daf5/1590418329103/convert-8-chop-shop.pdf Or this DAC card for the Merging Hapi DAC offering much higher output voltage? https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1806156-REG/merging_technologies_700341_da8_output_card_up.html Would there any loss in sound quality using a passive line stage like these, assuming their balanced stereo passive outputs could be bridged to feed the F4 in balanced mono mode? https://khozmo.com/product-category/preamplifiers/ 4.) However, as many F4 users have said, as it’s quite the chameleon and will essentially sound much like whatever’s feeding it. Thus, the F4 in balanced mono mode fed from a fully balanced tube line stage? Budget ~ $2500. I would think this last option might be best as I would just need the best sounding tube line stage I can afford. But which for awesome sound stage size, spot on imaging, holographic mids and airy highs? Going kind of nuts with this. Please share ideas.

This (truly?) Class A amp, designed and built in the US and so dang affordable https://www.stereophile.com/content/schiit-audio-aegir-power-amplifier , would have been absolutely perfect for my 90db SPL/w/m center speaker, if when in bridged mode it delivered only ~ 40 watts, for what would probably be a lot less power draw and heat. I asked that smart ass Schiit chatbot if Schiit might offer to customize the Aegir 2 or any of their Class A amps, but no. Can anyone therefore recommend another very low power Class A amp center channel amp alternativr-or some brand who offers customizable Class A amps? But please don't say First Watt because my 25 wpc/8 ohm F4 amp draws 180 w.

I’m hoping to build a 3.3 system for DVD/BD movie sound; also for CDs and high res downloads. The three Rythmik F12 sealed subs are needed as my main speakers won’t do much above 90db SPL below 100Hz. And as my sources are all digital, the multiple subs and DIRAC Live for Windows should provide very smooth bass response, prior to what corrections I can make acoustically. I have First Watt J2 and F4 amps, though the latter would need to be driven by my Don Sachs 6SN7 preamp. But those hot running Class A amps would be impractical for movie and TV sessions, so I’m looking for a high performance multichannel poweramp. But as my room is only ~ 2850 cu ft, the main speakers are at least 93db SPL/w/m and the center speaker nearly as sensitive, this MCH amp need not exceed much above 50 wpc, especially if a fourth channel can be bridged to drive the center speaker. Of course, wpc like this would be huge overkill. https://emotiva.com/collections/x-series/products/xpa-dr3 Ideally, the amp will be biased to run in a Class A mode at low listening levels, which given >90db speaker sensitivities could often be the case. And the amp must have balanced inputs as 8 channel DACs like the Okto DAC 8 Pro don’t perform well feeding unbalanced loads. Adjustable input level controls a plus. Budget ~ $4K.

I'm no expert either but according to this brand ~ 70% of what's heard from optical disc/TV broadcast/steaming content is mixed to present from the center speaker. https://www.svsound.com/collections/svs-center-channel-speakers And that's especially so for dialogue. Subtitles? Unless I'm watching a foreign language film no thanks. I think the best route is to ask Troy Crowe, who's designing my main speakers, to suggest a highly compatible center channel speaker design for them. I only hope that placement won't present any insurmountable problems. All of my sources are digital and JRiver will be my player, and as it has equal loudness compensation it almost certainly has programmable master volume limiting to protect my hearing by preventing excessive SPLs. https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,129421.msg965314.html#msg965314

I have neither the Hapi nor the Okto 8 channel DACs. Nor do I have a MCH processor (e.g. Anthem, Marantz, Denon, McIntosh, et al), which I truly detest as all of the better designed models have twice the number of channels I need; huge waste of money. No live agents at the Sony website. Waiting another 30 minutes by phone an agent confirmed what’s said at this link that even if an optical cable is used (??) instead of an HDMI cable, an AVR is apparently needed to connect another (analog/digital??) cable between the TV and AVR. https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/articles/00201071 So it looks like not even the Hapi configured with that optical module would work; and you advise against trying that anyway. The Okto has no optical connector, and as I’m not buying a lesser sounding 7 or 5 channel AVR I’m out of options. Even something like the Anthem processor wouldn't work because the Sony speakers must apparently be driven by AVR speaker outputs. What a sick waste in every way.

bed Everything you said makes sense and is exactly how I would approach it. But I may have to be extras careful to maintain a safe volume range as my new speakers being horn loaded are capable of very high SPLs. The trouble is, outside of some very high resolution software plugin or hardware limiter, it looks like the only way to avoid constantly having to constantly ride the volume control is to add a center channel speaker between my mains. That would likely allow far better control of dialogue levels. But as they are 2 ft w x ~ 3.5 ft h floor standers the center speaker would block the view of my TV. And a projector and an acoustically transparent screen, where I could otherwise put the center speaker behind it, would pose multiple placement and installation problems. I had hoped that the internal speakers in the Sony A95L OLED TV would be usable as center channel speaker. Actually, they are but I've yet to find out how well, if at all, they will work with straight multichannel DACs, like the Hapi or DAC Pro 8