Ponkbutler

It's not that the current goes up, but that the ER will require and draw more current for a lower voltage and the PSU may struggle to deliver it.

Suspect it’s going to be the same for me

That’s exactly what I found with his previous Ethernet cable, especially where textural detail of classical instruments was concerned

I've not played with clocks (yet) but adding a Sean Jacobs LPS to the ER was almost as big as adding the ER in the first place.

Yes. In my opinion very much better, and I’m not the only one. I found the Melco very disappointing...

Is this compared to the EtherRegen? I much preferred the latter to the Melco, even with a very good external linear power supply.

John was quite clear about square wave being preferable and has not given any indication that the clock paper will mark a change of thinking. You keep repeating the above-quoted misinformation about clocks. The Mutec Ref10 is, for example, a square wave clock with a combination of outputs, but gives the preference to 75 Ohm, as you can see from the number of outputs provided: 2 x 10 MHz reference clock BNC output, 50 Ω terminated, unbalanced 6 x 10 MHz reference clock BNC output, 75 Ω terminated, unbalanced As you report different types of good external clocks result in an improvement. We have several reports of this on the forum and I have a friend who is very happy with adding a SOtM clock (sine wave and 75 Hz) to his EtherRegen. But of course no-one wants just better, we want best 😀 Also, note that whereas the SOtM clock was originally supplied with only a 50 Ohm output, they now offer both 50 and 75.

It does, lowering the noise floor a little further and bring enhanced air and ease, but it’s a fairly subtle improvement.

That's because you're looking at OXCOs not designed for audio applications and where the cable lengths are likely to be substantially longer than in a home audio system

And quite transparent about it. Moreover, from the pic at least, the OCXO is a Morion

I can fully understand your impatience, but I really don’t think that tone is called for. After all this is more than anything else a favour to all of us in the “Uptone community” and we all know this is a period when both John and Alex have their hands full.…

I think we could speculate endlessly on this when in the end - as audiophile consumers - it's really just a matter of what offers the best compromise or ultimate performance here and now, or what we criteria we set to determine how long to wait before pulling the trigger. FWIW an acquaintance uses a SOtM Master Clock on his ERs (so sine not square wave output) and is very pleased with the result...

I’m not sure whether we can take any of that as more than marketing spin. In the same way that SOtM and Mutec claim the superiority of sine and square wave respectively. This section on master clock applications from an oscillator tutorial online is perhaps more relevant to digital audio: ”Microprocessor Crystal Quartz Clocks We can not finish a Quartz Crystal Oscillatorstutorial without mentioning something about Microprocessor crystal clocks. Virtually all microprocessors, micro-controllers, PICs and CPU’s generally operate using a Quartz Crystal Oscillator as its frequency determining device to generate their clock waveform because as we already know, crystal oscillators provide the highest accuracy and frequency stability compared to resistor-capacitor, (RC) or inductor-capacitor, (LC) oscillators. The CPU clock dictates how fast the processor can run and process the data with a microprocessor, PIC or micro-controller having a clock speed of 1MHz means that it can process data internally one million times per second at every clock cycle. Generally all that’s needed to produce a microprocessor clock waveform is a crystal and two ceramic capacitors of values ranging between 15 to 33pF as shown below. Microprocessor Oscillator Most microprocessors, micro-controllers and PIC’s have two oscillator pins labelled OSC1and OSC2 to connect to an external quartz crystal circuit, standard RC oscillator network or even a ceramic resonator. In this type of microprocessor application the Quartz Crystal Oscillator produces a train of continuous square wave pulses whose fundamental frequency is controlled by the crystal itself. This fundamental frequency regulates the flow of instructions that controls the processor device. For example, the master clock and system timing.” The full tutorial is here: https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/oscillator/crystal.html The 50 / 75 Ohm is to do with the former being more effective and therefore popular for long (non-audio) connections and therefore the de facto choice until audiophiles found sonic advantages to 75 with the comparatively very short connections we require.

I am no expert whatsoever, but that does not seem to be the case. Please see here, for example: Oscillator Basics

I had read it and following your recommendation read through it again. It does not answer my questions, thank you.

Hi AfterDark, Firstly, congratulations on now having your own forum! I am another EtherRegen owner interested in a compact clock with DC only supply who has a good (Sean Jacobs) PSU with spare 12V output, and am waiting for the announced group buy to be finalised. I have a few questions in the meantime: 1) Why are the higher-performing versions called Giesemann? Is this the name of the OCXO? 3) Does it natively generate a square-wave or is it converted subsequently? 4) Would it be possible to get the Emperor with two outputs (I run two EtherRegens in a daisy chain configuration). Complicating matters, one has a 50 Ohm clock input while the other has a 75 Ohm clock input. 4) Would be possible to get a shorter clock cable? I believe as short as possible is the best solution and the clock and ER will be next to one another. Many thanks for your patience. Mike

FWIW my system sounded better with the Cisco removed. Others have found the same thing. It could be system-dependant

I use two daisychained ERs with a nice but not immense benefit. The first, which has two A-side connections, is powered by an earthed output from a LPS while the second is not earthed, only having one A-side connection.

Doesn’t that describe the Mutec Ref-10 and SE clocks? Or are their outputs not isolated?

That sounds very exciting and your impressions will I am sure be helpful to many of us.

Thanks Andreas (and Adrian), Tha sounds very interesting. Will there also be an option for the OCXO Master Clock without linear PSU - I have spare outlet on my Sean Jacobs linear PSU.....

I look forward to hearing how you found the different clocks changed things, Renan.

That’s very interesting, thanks. Have you evaluated the impact of the two Ref-10s on the EtherRegen only? If so what were your impressions?

Well, if we're seriously evaluating a group buy, maybe we should include the Mutec Ref-10 and Ref-10 SE in the mix? The only disadvantage they have is box size. They were designed from the ground up to deliver a low-phase noise square wave reference.

I think we're discussing more than one. I was referring to the Paul Pang Audio (PPA) one.