UberK

I am using EcoFlow Delta Pro Ultras - they are the newest Lithium batteries which are much lower heat and there is no fan noise. Plus they are near infinitely expandable - I had them running the stereo system while I did all this testing and they are now being permanently put into the power system for the entire house. If you buy them from Costco, the price is outrageously low - with expandability up to 90 kWh to run the entire house on them. Goal Zero and others are good too. I am putting in 3 stacks that will have 21600W of battery storage and 7200W output for the house. Stromtank not needed … PS Audio not needed.

@Alexanderking thanks for posting the article. I think that is the article that got me going … down this path when I could not get a solution. The new EcoFlow has the new low heat batteries and fans are no longer an issue.

@Alexanderking can you post that strongman getting crushed article? Would love to read that. It was on my desperate to fix things list until i tried the EcoFlow. It is so insanely priced!

In the end .. just wanted it to work and all the advice did nothing. Especially the “do grounding” nonsense. Having three maxed out Ecoflows installed into the house to channel all power as we speak. Love them.

At least it should be the first step before power conditioners. My Niagara 5000 did absolutely nothing … sold it off. Might work for others (before I get people pounding on me again) .. but was a big pile of nada for me

@Audio_phool… doing this worked for me. The conditioners I tried did nothing.

Isn’t that the point of things like the PS Audio equipment? It regenerates. EcoFlow worked for me. We are about to move, and the first thing going in is a bank of 3 EcoFlow stacks so that I can run the house on batteries for a couple weeks - to avoid all the brown outs and noise in the system. Also have solar, so will optimize for selling back into the grid, converting the pool to electric heat, etc. Electricians will also be testing the house for grounding as their first task on the list. In addition, I like running the entire house on batteries. So I can get rid of UPSs - which are bulky and annoying. Suspenders and a belt. This frigging McIntosh issue drove me flat out insane - Niagara, and others did nothing (I bought and either - ate - or returned) a myriad of systems trying to get rid of the hum. Plus as I detailed a LOT of grounding work. And the new Ecoflows are the low temp batteries - and incredible technology. Which in the end .. is what I enjoy playing around with.

@KingRex not rude :). I am sure you are not dismissing the hum, as these things are quite common (and ridiculously hard to resolve). 1. I removed the XLR (the interconnect between the amp and the C12000) to remove the pre-amp from the equation. I am in North America ... I thought calling them XLR or analog interconnects was interchangeable. I just call them XLRs as it is shorter. 2. Per the above, I tried all kinds of different power cables .. stardard, iFi cables, then went to Audience Front Row power cables - 1m, 2m, 3m (have them for all systems so it was easy to try different lengths). On the issue of re-running wiring ... it is a relatively new high end residence. This is a good example (and story) of how that might not solve it (which influenced me): https://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2022/05/21/hifi-power-conditioning-vs-power-regeneration-ps-audio-pp20/ He did all that and still had a problem. Keep reading and he talks about how he switched from PS20 to Puritan (Which I have not tried) - I did Torus, Niagara, iFi, etc. which did nothing for me. Is the sound out of the EcoFlow (which is what you are getting at) as good as it could be with a regenerator (Which is something others asked with regards to inverters) - do not know. Did not try the regenerator.

@KingRex ... many things in there. 1. I have 2 amps - they both had this issue and used all different lengths and type of power cords to try and rectify it. Now they have Front Row Audience high end power cables. I also used all kinds of lengths - in and out of power conditioners, into the wall, etc. As there are 2 units - and only on the tube side - I cannot believe both are defective. So it is something in the power. 2. When I plug them into the EcoFlow, the hum disappeared. I just did it again. Removed XLR. Plugged directly into the EcoFlow. No hum. When it starts charging I get a bit. I have not gone down the regenerator path ..... this was focused on Niagara 5000, Puritan, etc.

@The Computer Audiophile yes on cordial, I will admit to getting a bit animated in my other post, especially when the derogatory comments and trolling began. Lively debate leads to lots of learning. For me, grounds are good. And tested - and ya, it is super annoying. Especially as it was not coming through anywhere else (like the ... how peculiar to have one side of the amp humming, and the other not! (As it is hybrid) .. and as the 2 pre-amps are different (the C12000 having tubes, and the MX123 not) .. provided a wide field of choice to test. Nothing coming out of the MC257 .. 462 or MI254 (feeding atmos). Pulling my hair out for 4 months till I figured out the EcoFlow. That is why I posted it - as it was such a tangential find for me and outside the "audiophile" realm. And so reasonably priced. These things start at $1K. SO THANKS. This article is what got me down this path. After wasting a small fortune on the Niagara 5000 and their fancy cable .. and a myriad of other things .. this was a godsend. My only real disappointment through the whole experience was McIntosh and how they made no effort to assist. I would think that they would want to test these things in a myriad of use cases to provide support, as you identify you have these issues. I come from a tech world, and we do solution test WAY beyond our own tech as to only consider our parameters is a disservice to our customers (who would not accept that answer from us). A common issue for those of us in tech. Unfortunately, this is what I had heard from many dealers - they love the tech, but the company is lacking from a support point of view. I detest finger pointing from a vendor - especially one at the top of the price scale.

@KingRex to address your questions 1 at a time. 1. You have a faulty amp I have 5 amps. The hum comes from 2 brand-new amps - MC451s. They are bi-amped into Amati G5s. The Bi-amping is with Valhalla 2 cables (have also tested others). The hum comes from both speakers - meaning both amps are experiencing the hum. The hum is only on the tube side driving the top speakers, with the SS side of the amp being black and clean. The other 3 amps do not have this issue. I have also had a NAD M17V2i running in this residence and a M28 amp. No issues. Just the tubes. The manufacturer suggested I break them in - that did nothing (run for 100 hours). 2. You have a faulty pre-amp. I have 2 pre-amps. MX123 and C12000. The C12000 operates in passthu mode with the MX123 when I watch TV/blu-ray/etc. The hum is there when in stereo mode with the C12000. The hum is there when in passthru mode with the MX123. 3. Changing the electrical to my rack DID eliminate the hum. - 20AMP dedicated line to the rack - has hum with or without a myriad of tested power conditioners (see the OP in the link). - EcoFlow added - zero hum. None. Black as black. 4. Power Conditioners as Snake oil. Here is what they claim: What benefits can I expect from a Power Conditioner? Protect sensitive electronic equipment from damage or data loss Improve the quality of audio recording or playback by removing line noise that causes "hum" Extend the life of equipment containing electronic circuits https://tripplite.eaton.com/products/power-conditioner-buying-guide#:~:text=What is a Power Line,voltage fluctuations and power surges. Niagara The Niagara 5000 features our patented AC ground noise dissipation system, the industry’s widest bandwidth linearized AC filter, and our unique passive / active transient power correction circuitry. In my use case - it did nothing. I tried AudioQuest Niagara, iFi (still have one), Furman, Torus, Puritan (I had real hopes about this one as it seemed different). When I added the EcoFlow - it eliminated all hum and the sound was clean. Amazing sound. Of interest, the one issue my Niagara 5000 did solve was a product defect in the Sonus Faber Gravis VI. It is a 1800W sub - and occasionally it went "insane". (I have the videos). It would just go nuts (loudly). When this happened, pulling the XLR would not stop it - it was an internal "go nuts" and the only way to stop it was to unplug it. They had no idea what was going on and in fact replaced it (which was a huge pain as the thing is massive) - and it kept happening. I diagnosed it on my own that if it did not get a full draw when it needed it - that was causing the issue (I asked them to validate that - they did not). The Niagara 5000 has a power well on with a 90A reserve. While I was doing the whole hum thing, I theorized that the draw was the issue with the SF and it worked. Since putting that in place - no issue. I have yet to get around to unplugging the Niagara (To your point - lots not he web about these things ruining sound - but I find it neutral) and theorize that as the Ecoflow Ultra 7.2kW of output in the base config that it can serve the need without the need for the reservoirs. The Ecoflow is a beast offering up to 21kW of output. https://www.ecoflow.com/us/delta-pro-ultra 5. What about power cables? Another snake oil but my cognitive bias likes the look of them, so I am fine with the investment with no return. All cables are Audience Front Row. They look amazing and are beasts. I had initially used iFi SupaNova cables but they are limited as they only offer one length. The power cables to the 451s are 3m.

@Jud perhaps. Inside the house I did this to eliminate the LED, etc noise to rule out a ground loop: - turned off all breakers but the dedicated 20AMP to the sound system - removed all devices that were not McIntosh (game systems, HiFiRose, etc.) Hum was still there for only the tube. There was no hum for the other 4 amps or the part of the hybrid amp that was SS. The amp is hybrid tube/SS and bi-amped to the speaker so even in the speaker - only the speaker able to the tube part of the amp hummed. There is something there that only the tube is picking up. As I put in my post - I tried a lot of audio solutions - power conditioners, etc. that claim to help with these issues with zero results. With the power coming from the battery, worked perfectly and I did not find the pricing outrageous as these solar systems are at massive scale. CES had a lot of choices and more emerging. This is mainstream technology, not niche audio.

@KingRex The problem with asking someone like yourself to make a public assessment is you don't have a good power supply to your rack. From what I have read you have a bad power supply to the rack. Its maybe only 14awg wire that goes around the room. Its part of the original build. You probably have multiple connections that are stab into the back of a duplex and back out again. These are the worst devices you can use. They start fires. They are the reason we have to install $75 AFCI breakers. So many were burning down houses. No. I do not have faulty power. 1. It is a new residence lived in for 2 years, at the 7 figure level. 2. The build is impeccable quality - and all trades were certified. 3. I have renovated 3 houses. A 110+ year old victorian (with contractors), and multiple other homes. In ever case, electrical and ethernet were micromanaged. Big panels, high quality products. 4. The systems are run on a dedicated 20AMP line. To your point, when I have this installed for the entire home, it will be done by an electrician. At this point I just have it dedicated to the system - and it is in a 20AMP outlet alone, with a GFCI. I initially bought the EcoFlow Delta Pro - but the fans are loud and I do not like how it scales. I had it for 2 days and they announced the Ultra. I love it because: 1. Massive scalability by adding new systems 2. Very quiet. Zero noise. Ecoflow has a great app for management also. There are many - Goal Zero is also fantastic. I would have bought the StromTank I the pricing were more reasonable.

@KingRex here is a system that is big load: McIntosh MX123, C12000, MC451 (2), MC257, MC462, MI254, SF Amati G5, Olympica Nova II, I, CII, Gravis VI sub (1800 watt). Mix of Valhalla 2, Tyr 2 cables. V2 for the C12000 and the Amati with V2 XLRs too. Audience Front Row cables for power - in retrospect a waste, but they look nice. EcoFlow Delta Pro Ultimate (as the Delta pro fans are really loud and the new system - March/24 scales in an amazing way) Also includes a brick Niagara 5000 - per the above. Worked brilliantly per this thread: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/amp-preamp-hum-power-conditioners-are-useless-snake-oil-batteries-do/post?postid=2676564#2676564

@krass the only frustrating thing is people saying I am band-aiding the solution or not getting to root cause because they refuse to accept that this is solved. In this use case it is a ludicrous statement. The only untested elements that have not been are: 1. Rip out all the relatively new wiring in my house. My wiring is good - so I reject this as the res is a couple years old. But I can not invalidate that suggestion without doing that silly thing. New residence. Certified wiring. No. 2. Bury a 8’ grounding rod (A suggestion - which is wrong - should be 12’). Not doing it. 3. Go to war with the power company Furthermore, I have rejected this “root cause” ongoing push because: 1. The hum does not appear in all amps 2. The solution has been tested with and without the power conditioners 3. The bi-amping with the hybrid amp (tube/ss) has made it possible to determine this is only a tube problem. 4. Suggestions that I might burn down my house are ridiculous - and frankly, toxic fear mongering. Not a single breaker is being flipped - trolls go away. In my area, the tube is picking up noise from power. No other amp or pre-amp is. Therefore, it is logical to conclude that there is something in the power causing noise.. Dirty power coming in impacting the tube. Many tests conducted - ground loops, and on and on. Power conditioners determined to be snake oil. EcoFlow solves it. PERFECT SOUND. In the future, even if I have a new residence with no hum, I will be installing this.